Your Feedback Matters


We hope you are enjoying The Foundation Stone™.
Please take a few moments to complete the survey
so that we can continue to improve our website.
Thank you for your time and support.

Take this survey



Your Feedback Matters


Please reconsider your decision.
A few minutes of your time will be
a great help and will allow us to make
The Foundation Stone™ even better.

Thank You!

Take this survey


The Music of Halacha: Rebuke: Case Study III Print E-mail

The Music of HalachaMy friends and I work at a company with many people, including many non-Jews. We consciously work to act in a way that reflects the beauty of Judaism. Some of our coworkers have had unpleasant experiences with observant Jews and we want them to know that such experiences are the anomaly, not the norm.

We prepared with our Rebbi ‘s guidance for a company weekend conference to learn what we could share with others and the most appropriate way to present Shabbat to people unfamiliar with our lifestyle or Torah true Judaism. We agreed to meet with some coworkers in front of my house so that we could drive together to the conference.

One coworker showed up dressed in a manner she, in fact, in what most people would consider appropriate. However, my friends and I live in a Chassideshe neighborhood in which dress standards are far different from those in different communities.

Our plan was to quickly hop into the car and be on our way.

A woman, prominent in our community, saw the way our coworker was dressed and stormed into the street to demand that we immediately cover her up. Her son needed to go to an important appointment, and she would not allow him to step outside and see someone dressed inappropriately. She insisted that she had successfully protected him, with whom she struggles over many issues, his entire life and he had never seen a woman dressed immodestly. “You are making things worse for my son!”

We felt that her behavior contradicted all our efforts to make a Kiddush Hashem - A Sanctification of God’s Name - and was a Chilul Hashem, a desecration of His Name.

Our coworker heard the shouting and screaming and, although embarrassed and upset,  was willing to do whatever was necessary to defuse the situation. My friends and I immediately gathered round her so that the boy could not see her. She was not happy with the way we responded.

We did not know how to explain the situation to her in a positive light. What should we have done? Are we correct in being upset with the woman who made the scene? Shall we say something to her about the way she acted? There are people who regularly come to the neighborhood to work and they are not dressed according to her modesty standards. This woman never makes a scene or even protests when those people come to the neighborhood. We felt as if we were bearing the brunt of her issues with her son.

Thank you for submitting your case study for consideration through the eyes of The Music of Halacha. I am taking the liberty of addressing your case at great length in order to stress how many Halachot apply to normal interpersonal situations:

Since you raised the issue of Tochacha, or rebuke, I will begin with a powerful Talmudic   regarding rebuke; “Remove the beam of wood from between your eyes,” meaning, we must be certain of our behavior before we offer words of rebuke to another.

The best way to begin reviewing such situations is always to examine what we could have done differently to avoid the situation. You could have met somewhere other than a Chassideshe neighborhood. You could have explained to your coworker that you live in a neighborhood with very different dress standards, and that if she would come to you to meet up for the drive, ‘could she please respect the community’s standards and dress accordingly?’

“We did not know how to explain the situation to her in a positive light,” indicates the importance of taking pride in how we live, and respecting people’s commitment to living a certain way of life. It is easier to Sanctify God’s Name when we take pride in what we do. Rabbi Yechiel Bar Lev, the noted author of the Yedid Nefesh (commentary on both Talmuds and the Zohar,) and The Song of the Soul, tells of an experience of circling the Bimah on Hashana Rabbah with his Lulav and Etrog, when a person turned to him and said, “I am sure that if my banker saw me like this, he would think I am crazy!” Such a person cannot make a Kiddush Hashem. He, and many like him, believe that when people see us acting differently and think we are crazy or weird that we are making a Chilul Hashem. We are not! We sanctify God’s Holy Name each time we act according to His Will.

Even if a stranger does not understand why we live and act in certain ways, and assumes that we are crazy, we are sanctifying God’s Name.

All of you must consider why it was so difficult to describe our commitment to personal dignity with a sense of pride.

So far we have discussed the first stage of Tochacha, which is to first examine our behavior. We also pointed out that we need more clarity about the Mitzvah to Sanctify God’s Name. It is essential that we take pride in our commitment to our lifestyle.

We must now approach another important Mitzvah, which is, “Do not judge someone until you stand in his place.” This is rooted in the verse, “Judge your friend with righteousness.”

“We felt as if we were bearing the brunt of her issues with her son.” Even if your judgement is correct, you must first “stand in her shoes,” before judging her. We are not permitted to offer Tochacha, rebuke, until we have carefully and empathically, considered the other’s situation.

There is another stage of preparation to offer Tochacha: If a person has been hurt by another and finds resentment in his heart, he is biblically obligated to rebuke the one who hurt him, and say, “Why did you do...?” This law is learned from, “Do not hate your brother in your heart,” (but) “Rebuke your friend.” (See Rambam, Hilchot Dei’ot 6:6; Semag, Prohibition 5; Chinuch 239; Magen Avraham 156.) The Alei Shor (Volume II, page 240) wonders how it is that so many believe that it is preferable to remain silent rather than indicate to the other that he has the power to so hurt you!

If you find that your are resentful of this woman’s behavior, you have an additional Mitzvah to rebuke her in order to avoid hating another in your heart. I suggest that you review the story of Avshalom and Amnon and the disastrous results of unaddressed hatred. (Samuel II, Chapter 13)

You then must consider whether your rebuke will be because of her actions that hurt you, or for her “sin.” There are different Halachot regarding rebuke to avoid hatred and rebuke for a sin.

What are the differences?

What was her sin?

To Be Continued...






Share/Save/Bookmark
Comments (6)Add Comment

 <script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript'>
 <!--
 var prefix = 'ma' + 'il' + 'to';
 var path = 'hr' + 'ef' + '=';
 var addy16370 = 'moshe.stepansky' + '@';
 addy16370 = addy16370 + 'gmail' + '.' + 'com';
 document.write( '<a ' + path + '\'' + prefix + ':' + addy16370 + '\'>' );
 document.write( addy16370 );
 document.write( '<\/a>' );
 //-->\n </script> <script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript'>
 <!--
 document.write( '<span style=\'display: none;\'>' );
 //-->
 </script>This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 <script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript'>
 <!--
 document.write( '</' );
 document.write( 'span>' );
 //-->
 </script>
What lies beneath....
written by This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it , July 28, 2010
There's a pithy Talmudic saying"Mila b'Sela, Sh'teeka bi'Trey"-A word is worth a Sela(valuable coin),Silence is worth twice a Sela

Rav Amital used to give over a Slonimer Torah on this aphorism:What Silence is worth double?The refraining from saying that original One WORD.

As we all know, just as it is important to know what to say when, it is even more important to know what not to say.

R'Shlomo said that when dealing with an explosive situation, especially if you feel anger coming on (even if justified)the best way to subvert the anger is to heap blessings on the other person. This action will hopefully aid one in avoiding the very real potential for hatred.

As far as the particulars of the above situation, on a first reading, the Prominent Woman sounds pretty beleaguered and overwhelmed in 'protecting' her son. Frankly, she sounds as if she feels she is tackling the world all by herself. Perhaps someone should contemplate establishing some connection with her and reach out to her on a personal level.
As we've written before,R'Shlomo gave over a classic Vorki Torah on the verse in the beginning of Lech-L'cha (B'Reishit 12;3)"Va'Avor'chah m'vor'checha, u'M'kallel'cha a'Ohr".
The basic translation runs (G-d saying to Avrum)I will bless those who bless you and those who curse you-I will curse.
The Vorki Rebbe explains otherwise-It's well known the Torah tends to symmetry.It should say for 'I will curse'-"Akallel"-what's the significance of "A'Ohr"? Says the Vorki- Let's be real. If you curse the curser -you just end up with a never-ending cycle of cursing. But, if you try to shine a little bit of Light (A'Ohr)- you have a fighting chance to turn over the world (in the best way possible, of course!!).

A classic R'Shlomo story:
R'Shlomo also gave concerts in prisons. The location and audience didn't matter=Shlomo didn't take the stage until he'd personally said hello and hugged everyone there.
So, he's giving a concert at a prison somewhere in the States and all the inmates are there whether or not they're Jewish. After the concert, the inmates are heading back to their cells and Shlomo is heading out.
Suddenly there's a commotion - one of the black prisoners is running to Shlomo with some guards in hot pursuit,getting ready to tackle the prisoner!!!
Shlomo asks the guards to let the prisoner approach him."Rabbi, can I please have ONE MORE HUG??" Shlomo complies and the prisoner turns to the guards and says"Who knows, if someone had given me hugs like this when I was younger,whether I'd even be here in jail??!!"


Another way to avoid anger /hatred is to understand their are many facets to any given action and that although we would not necessarily take the same approach, there may be some valid aspect to someone else's behavior. The all-important caveat to remember is we must be sure of our own position and with equanimity be able to relate to others.
This is an essential element of HOD- the realization that each person has their own inimitable relationship with G-d and therefore each person is in their own space.

The twist of course occurs when a third person is affected."Our plan was to quickly hop into the car and be on our way." Perhaps I am missing some information; but seeing the sensitivity issue; wouldn't the best course of action be for some of the folks to get into the car (not just the female colleague)and be social, out of sight,in a more normal way. Creating a phalanx surrounding her conveyed the unintended message of 'circling the wagons' and indeed,can obscure the beauty of our Holy Torah.
One must be very careful NOT to 'bad mouth' the Prominent Woman to the colleague by explaining her behavior as 'just another crazy stringency'. In fact, I'm not sure it's advisable, or even possible, to explain away another person's behavior.I'd suggest the better tack is to explain that Torah is not black and white but rather a melange of different shades of sensitivities. Unfortunately,It seems to me that by surrounding your colleague, the impression she got was that she was at fault and such a feeling isn't going to bring anyone closer. Whereas, the Prominent Woman's response was not 'warm and fuzzy'; you may be able to temper a bit of the fallout by explaining to your colleague that you may also have goofed a little in underestimating the local person's sensitivity.


report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1

 <script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript'>
 <!--
 var prefix = 'ma' + 'il' + 'to';
 var path = 'hr' + 'ef' + '=';
 var addy87739 = 'moshe.stepansky' + '@';
 addy87739 = addy87739 + 'gmail' + '.' + 'com';
 document.write( '<a ' + path + '\'' + prefix + ':' + addy87739 + '\'>' );
 document.write( addy87739 );
 document.write( '<\/a>' );
 //-->\n </script> <script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript'>
 <!--
 document.write( '<span style=\'display: none;\'>' );
 //-->
 </script>This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 <script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript'>
 <!--
 document.write( '</' );
 document.write( 'span>' );
 //-->
 </script>
...
written by This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it , July 28, 2010
Sensitivity is a 2 way street.
Sometimes we get so wrapped up in our own situations, that the world around us goes ever so slightly out of focus.
2 years ago, on a visit to the NY Metro area, I had a late night conversation with a lovely person who was quite upset. "I've spent the last 4 years coming closer to observance and nobody will cut me some slack;how come the observant folks are so mean to me and won't accept me for who I am, quirks and all(including certain elements of former counter-observance)".
When the conversation took an unpleasant turn on her part in reference to these folks, I asked her the following question"Why is it you demand they accept you for yourself, for who you are; but you are unwilling to accept these observant folks with their foibles (which are actually articles of faith and observance!)for who they are?".

It's always easier to demand consideration from others. The harder part requires us to be brutally honest with ourselves and examine our actions in light of how we act towards others.

So whenever we find ourselves indignant at others' seeming lack of sensitivity towards us or 'innocent' bystanders -please, please,please,PLEASE,please let us each examine and grade ourselves on our own sensitivity to others.

As we've discussed during S'firat Ha'Omer, we need to attain the level of HOD for a smattering of personal redemption. This occurs with the realization that I have my own special relationship with G-d.My relationship with G-d is unique in the whole universe. However, I achieve the concurrent realization that just like I have this one-of-a-kind relationship with G-d, so, too do all the other folks.
But it's not enough for me to have this epiphany. If I'm the only one to wake up and smell this elixir of Life, more likely than not people will treat me like a loony.
However, IF each one of us has this epiphany that each one of us has a special relationship with G-d, which, IN NO WAY, takes away from everyone else's special relationship with G-d ==>THEN, we, as a Nation, will have attained the level of HOD she'ba'HOD, the plague of divisiveness will dissipate and we, Ahm Yisrael, as a Nation, will be ready for our 'close-up' with G-d and Redemption will be at hand.ACY"R
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
0
...
written by supermom , July 29, 2010
As one of the women involved in the episode above, I'd like to add that the "saga" of this case study continues since presenting the facts to Rebbe.
I have since received a phone call from this Prominent Women's married daughter. The above incident bothered both her mother and father greatly that they sent her to talk to me (or so it appeared)...The father, a Pominent Person in the community, was out of town and the mother may have been too emotional to talk with me directly. we ended up having a conversation about the neighborhood, chilul Hashem, her mother's way of handling it, etc. Was i allowed to discuss this with her daughter? Was she allowed to be involved in this if it's just between her parents and myself? The purpose of the conversation was to come up with a solution to avoid this incident from happening again. I sensed that her father was asking for me to discontinue inviting immodestly clad co-workers to the neighborhood or if they do visit, I should insist on having them dress with more respect.

What is the best way to handle this while keeping the pride of our Jewish Laws yet not holding onto any feelings of anger at the way i feel the Prominent Couple are handling this? I didn't feel it was right that the married daughter was asked or she may have chosen to be involved in a situation that has nothing to do with her. (she lives in another area)

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
0
...
written by supermom , July 29, 2010
This brings to mind another Halachic question on how to say this to women who may visit who are not co-workers but more like clients who may come once and never again...must something be mentioned to them about coming to the neighborhood with modest attire? How far should this be taken....does everyone passing through need an inspection?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
0
...
written by basha , July 29, 2010
As a participant in the above situation, I would like to firstly thank you for this Music of Halacha (and the entire foundation stone) as it is helping me learn from a situation I experienced. Wow! What a blessing! Secondly, I would like to clarify some facts.
The prominent woman demanded, in a very loud and angry tone, that we remove the immodest coworker from the street, or get her into the car immediately! She implied that we are ruining her son, as he never goes anywhere where there are immodest woman! I was trying to stay calm in a very, uptight situation, and calmly told her that we made a mistake, we will make arrangements elsewhere next time, and we will be on the way in just a few minutes, as all the packages were almost in the car. All the people present heard her shouts, however, they did not all understand the language, and we did not tell them what she said at that time. The woman yelling, then asked me to block the view, so that her son could run into the taxi that arrived then, which 2 of us orthodox woman did, with out the co-worker realizing.
By the way, all of the people present were females, who were trying to load the car! There was no simple way to get this female into the car to socialize, as we were all, including this immodest female, trying to load the overflowing car, so that she, and the rest of us can get into the car!
The mother of this boy, may not have realized the situation that we were in, (nor been able to realize, because of her emotions being so charged), that, with the car being full of luggage, and all of us trying to maneuver ourselves into the car, it wasn't so simple to just drive away, nor get the immodest female into the car.

The charged atmosphere, that this mother created, added to an already tense situation, of trying to pack up a car of luggage and people. She wanted to go over to the immodest female and demand that she leave immediately! There appeared to me a that a chilul Hashem might arise, as the mother didn't appear to be in a state of talking to the female in a rational way! My brain was working furiously toward finding a solution to our luggage issue, so that we can leave, + trying to keep this woman calm, while trying to stay calm myself in a very uptight situation! What would have been a better way for me to have dealt with the situation?

Would it have been recommended as commented above, that I should have heaped blessings on her, in order to appease her, while she was yelling? I did notice that when I did admit that a mistake was made, (to have made up to meet at her block) she did calm down a bit.

Is there something wrong with our lack of sensitivity to this issue, that it didn't occur to any of us that a problem with immodesty might arise? We didn't realize it'll take us some time to get into the car.

Am I obligated to even consider offering tochocha to a woman I had never met before, who did not seem to be in the position of accepting my tochocha anyway?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1

 <script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript'>
 <!--
 var prefix = 'ma' + 'il' + 'to';
 var path = 'hr' + 'ef' + '=';
 var addy47891 = 'moshe.stepansky' + '@';
 addy47891 = addy47891 + 'gmail' + '.' + 'com';
 document.write( '<a ' + path + '\'' + prefix + ':' + addy47891 + '\'>' );
 document.write( addy47891 );
 document.write( '<\/a>' );
 //-->\n </script> <script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript'>
 <!--
 document.write( '<span style=\'display: none;\'>' );
 //-->
 </script>This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
 <script language='JavaScript' type='text/javascript'>
 <!--
 document.write( '</' );
 document.write( 'span>' );
 //-->
 </script>
Shavua tov from Tsfat!Some thoughts re: Basha and Supermom's comments
written by This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it , July 31, 2010
To Basha:
1.Please forgive me for not explaining that Shlomo's suggestion about blessing someone you are upset with isn't about appeasing them. It's about getting your own anger under control.
2.Frankly, and as ChaZ"L point out- when someone is in a rage, that's not when you're going to have much success telling them just about anything.Even so, you indicate she calmed down somewhat when you admitted the goof.
3.There's a difference between making an honest mistake(as it seems was your case) and a lack of sensitivity (which would be if you did this numerous times and in particular after it was brought to your attention).

I believe R' Simcha has mentioned elsewhere that there is no mitzva of tochakha in the case of someone who clearly is not in a 'listening mode'.This applies whether you know or do not know the person.

The purpose of the mitzva of tochakha, as with many other mitzvot bein odom la'khaveiro, is to increase the peace and care amongst all of us denizens of Ahm Yisrael.

Therefore, it seems the better chance for tochakha would be making contact after the incident, to discuss the matter. Unfortunately, as Supermom clues us in, the 'Prominent Couple' pre-empted you by having their daughter call you,in what seems to me (perhaps erroneously) to be their attempt at 'tochakha' to you folks.
However, since you believe the intent was really just to try to work things out for the future, it sounds like some attempt at reinstating/keeping the peace.

On a certain level,I'm not sure it's so inappropriate the daughter was called in.Clearly (from their point of view)the father wasn't going to speak to a woman.The mother was 'too close' to the situation and apparently still wouldn't be rational, in which case any attempt at 'tochakha' on your part would be worse than useless.They may have felt their daughter could fill an 'Aharon HaCohein' role to try to bring peace.

By the way, I'm not sure this issue is just between the parents and yourself- the larger issue relates to how her parents relate to lesser-observant yidn.It didn't sound like much negotiation was going on. In essence,the general feeling you,Supermom, got was they want to impose their stricture upon your potential visitors.
They may even think they are preventing you from falling afoul of the "Lifnei 'Eeveir" rules-that your inviting lesser clad women to the street is endangering their potentially impressionable son.

I'm still at a loss for information. Is this a predominantly 'chareidi' neighborhood/street and the 'Prominent Couple' feel they are spokesmen for the'silent majority'? Or is this a situation they are trying to develop? For the resident of this street who was involved in the incident - do you feel the 'Prominent Couple' are representative of the neighborhood at large or that the other folks can live with the current situation because they trust their children and the education they've instilled?

Sometimes there are more important things than being 'right'. Maintaining the communal peace is very important. I, personally, had a major setback, where I was surely in the right but I deemed the value of communal peace more important and therefore removed myself from the situation, at not insignificant cost on multiple levels.

However, each situation has its own set of facts.Supermom asks another very good question in her second comment-clients etc.If you feel there is potential for a significant monetary/goodwill loss by not having clients come to your home for consults or that any suggestion about attire may 'blow things out of the water'- then you have the makings of an excellent question to pose to your Halacha decisor/advisor.

This is a very complex situation as certain ideological differences come into focus, partly as a result of different Halachic opinions.
Certain Halacha issues were ignored in the heat of the moment e.g. embarrassing someone in public.
A lot does depend on the actual facts on the ground related to that local community. Even so, too much of their focus is on externalities rather than reaching out to fellow yidn.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1

Write comment

busy
 
Joomla 1.5 Templates by JoomlaShine.com